Podcast: Moving Towards Safer Uncertain


I was recently invited onto the Building Better Leaders Podcast hosted by Rachael Sullivan and John Tattersall of Scaffold Coaching. If you have enjoyed the Towards Safer Uncertainty blogs why not have a listen.

Podcast here

Show notes

In today’s episode we are joined by Leadership Coach & Developer Matt Lock, whose career spans education, sport and business in the UK and New Zealand. We talk to Matt about an article he wrote in The Learning Scientist Magazine on Towards Safer Uncertainty. It’s a topic that has never been more relevant than in the world we find ourselves in today (as the UK enters a third national lockdown).

Matt explains that we tend to confuse safety with certainty. Believing that to be safe we need to be certain. Yet by realising we can be safe and uncertain, we can move into the domain of growth, exploration and learning. A fascinating territory for leaders to thrive in, and one that leads to more useful and appropriate ways forward. Matt argues that moving towards safer uncertainty is essential for next tier leaders - the leaders our businesses, organisations, and planet needs now.

Discussion Points:

Why the default position of 'It depends’ is a powerful place to start conversations.

To live a meaningful life we must Grow Up. Wake Up. Clean Up. Both as individuals and as organisations.

That when, as individuals and cultures, we recognise vulnerability as courage, we will make greater progress.

Accepting that things are always going to change, and that doing so leads to creativity and possibility.

How leaders can move Towards Safer Uncertainty using a framework for practice:


  1. Staying curiously awake

  2. Consciously creating safety

  3. Embracing uncertainty

  4. Learning from life

  5. Connecting to the wider system

Learn about Matt’s three Leadership Essentials and why they are so important to leadership success.

  1. Humility

  2. Courage

  3. Curiosity

Podcast here

If you would benefit from some help with developing your safer uncertainty practice, get in touch.

#TowardsSaferUncertainty

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